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For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23) In reply Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. (John 3:3) Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6) That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. (Romans 10:9-11)
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

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Order ofMelchizedek Profile
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Registered: 07-2006
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¿OSAS?


Is Once Saved Always Saved true? Why then, does the Bible warn us about falling away, about persevering, overcoming, and holding firm until the end?
Could it be that, although nothing can take us away, we are free to turn away on our own? How else could temptation even be temptation, if we are not tempted by it?
 emoticon


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"All of Your goodness, the blood You have shed, the cross I now remember, lest I forget" -RSJ

10/9/2006, 10:07 pm Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
praying4patience Profile
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Re: ¿OSAS?


you know that we are in total agreement here Mel.Two things we ought never do;PRESUME our salvation or DESPAIR of the Mercy of God.

GB!~
p4p



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10/9/2006, 11:13 pm Link to this post send email  to praying4patience   send pm to praying4patience Blog
 
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Re: ¿OSAS?


If we have free will, I would think that we have the freedom to turn our back on God. Even turn our back on our own salvation.
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Peace, that brief period in history when everyone stops to reload.
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Portia01 Profile
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Re: ¿OSAS?


I think this is a very dangerous doctrine. I have heard people who espouse this belief claim that after one has been saved [recitation of sinner's prayer and repentence], no sin, no matter how grave can cause them to lose salvation; for example, if one turned to a homosexual lifestyle and never repented, one was still saved. There are those who believe that any kind of obedience to the moral law constitutes legalism and is just not necessary.

I believe the doctrine originates from an erroneous interpretation of this verse. At least, this is the one that has been quoted to me in defense of OSAS:

John 10: 29 That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father.



Other Scriptures clearly do not support this doctrine:


Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. (Ezek 3:20)

But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. (Ezek 18:24)

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. (Ezek 18:26)

If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. (Ezek 33:13)

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. (Ezek 33:18)


Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. (Luke 8:13)


For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. (Rom 8:13)

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? (Rom 6:16)

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things
shall not obtain the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)






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Thomas71 Profile
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Registered: 11-2006
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Re: ¿OSAS?


One thing to keep in mind that time is not the same for God as it is for men. Time is not linear for God, things do not happen one after another, which is why such an urge is put to work in the present. This is why the cross saves those before, during, and after the crucifixion of our Lord.

Also, our names are already written in the book. While this does not mean that predestination is true, some people are the Elect. The Elect have already been written into the book of life.

So really, say for 1 human hour of your life you are repentant and the next you commit the unforgivable sin and reject the Holy Spirit, then you never were really one of the elect.

Sorry if this is incoherent but I am a bit tired emoticon
11/24/2006, 9:55 pm Link to this post send email  to Thomas71   send pm to Thomas71
 
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Re: ¿OSAS?


 emoticon Welcome Thomas! What a thread to start out in!
You bring up a great point, though.
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---

"All of Your goodness, the blood You have shed, the cross I now remember, lest I forget" -RSJ

11/25/2006, 12:00 am Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
Kingdomseek4 Profile
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Re: ¿OSAS?


In Eph 2 it says for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. We do not do any righteous act to get saved[born again]. It is a gift from God. How could I do an unrighteous act to get unborn? The bible says that He will NEVER leave me nor forsake me. Never. David wrote in Psalms 139:8-"If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there." When the prodigal son was in the hogs pen, he still said "my father". He was still his father's son. When we are born naturally, there is nothing that can happen to make us not be our parents children. There are some things that can happen to take away our INHERENTANCE. So the same thing when we are born into God's family. We are His children and nothing can happen to change that. But there are things that can happen to cause us not to inherit this kingdom.
11/27/2006, 7:17 pm Link to this post send email  to Kingdomseek4   send pm to Kingdomseek4
 
Thomas71 Profile
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Re: ¿OSAS?



In Eph 2 it says for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. We do not do any righteous act to get saved[born again].



I completely agree with this statement. Altar calls and the talk of "accepting God" seem very dangerous to me. Anything that puts the emphasis on what we do can lead us away from the fact that it is only through the grace of God that Jesus Christ is able to enter into our hearts. I feel that when people start talking about how they accepted Christ into their hearts that they are diminishing this fact. Though we do have the ability due to our sinful nature to commit the unforgivable sin, the sin against the Holy Spirit and reject Christ, we are far too sinful and fallen to have strength of our own to come to him.

As Luther states

"I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith"
11/27/2006, 9:30 pm Link to this post send email  to Thomas71   send pm to Thomas71
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
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Registered: 07-2006
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Re: ¿OSAS?


More great points.
KingdomSeek4 and Thomas, do you both consider yourselves Calvinists?


But there are things that can happen to cause us not to inherit this kingdom.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. We can be God's children, but not inherit His Kingdom? Could you elaborate on this a bit?


Though we do have the ability due to our sinful nature to commit the unforgivable sin,

So, you do believe that we have a certain amount of 'freewill' within God's sovereignty?


---

"All of Your goodness, the blood You have shed, the cross I now remember, lest I forget" -RSJ

11/28/2006, 6:49 am Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
Thomas71 Profile
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Re: ¿OSAS?


No, I do not consider myself Calvinist. I do not believe in predestination, only in the elect. Also, while I believe that only through the help and grace of God we are able to come to him, I do not believe that he selects people at random, as the Calvinists do, but rather that all who have the Holy Spirit enter into them (i.e. through the word of God - Holy Scripture) can then reject the word.
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