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For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23) In reply Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. (John 3:3) Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6) That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. (Romans 10:9-11)
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

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Order ofMelchizedek Profile
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Registered: 07-2006
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Re: EVILution


Evolution is not science. emoticon
It's more like a religion, and many have a strong faith in it.

And no, it is no threat to my "fundamentalism" at all.

Now, you're the one always talking about proof. Where's the evolutionary proof? Germs, you say? Look closer, mutations are generally something being lost, not something new appearing. Besides, they're still germs. When one evolves into a cat, let me check out that proof.

Macro evolution violates the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics, as well as Biogenesis.
Last I heard, a law trumps a theory.

DNA is a code. Has there ever been a code that was not created by some sort of intelligence? I've actually had an atheist answer me and say, "No, just this one time." emoticon


---

I'm running out of time, to live
Running out of love, to give
Running out of life, within
God help me --RSJ

12/1/2008, 12:21 pm Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
Stormdog Profile
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The Atheist

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Re: EVILution



Order ofMelchizedek wrote:

Evolution is not science. emoticon
It's more like a religion, and many have a strong faith in it.

And no, it is no threat to my "fundamentalism" at all.

Now, you're the one always talking about proof. Where's the evolutionary proof? Germs, you say? Look closer, mutations are generally something being lost, not something new appearing. Besides, they're still germs. When one evolves into a cat, let me check out that proof.

Macro evolution violates the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics, as well as Biogenesis.
Last I heard, a law trumps a theory.

DNA is a code. Has there ever been a code that was not created by some sort of intelligence? I've actually had an atheist answer me and say, "No, just this one time." emoticon



First off, I have no problem with Deists. If you want to say that an undetectable intelligent force created the laws of physics and did nothing afterwords, we're not going to have much to argue about. I said on another post that I really don't know exactly how life began, and I meant it. However, genetic drift (common source of mutation) can bring about new features, or change the appearance and function of an existing one, such as making a tail longer, changing the texture of hair, or, as you suggested, making a feature vanish altogether. We are not talking about a closed system, and this is were some opponents make a mistake. DNA is affected by outside sources, such as radiation. This is why the 2nd Law doesn't apply.

I can bring over a real life genetic scientist if you like, but rest assured, evolution is a scientific theory, and has more evidence, both indirect and observed, to support it than most other scientific theories. Scientists (good ones, that is) are much more harder on each other than a theist will be.
No "faith" is required to accept a theory. Scientists don't claim to have the right answer right from the beginning. It's a long process. And if one scientist cannot get the same results from an experiment as another, the previous conclusions are not accepted until the theory (hypothesis at this point) is refined to one that works.

Laws don't trump theories. New theories can trump a previous law, though. Newton made mistakes. His laws regarding gravity were refined, based on later theories. This happens all the time in science. Unlike theology, new conclusions are welcome in science. It's called "progress".

But you do hit on an important point - don't accept the words of a scientist simply because he's wearing a labcoat.

---
There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
12/1/2008, 12:40 pm Link to this post send email  to Stormdog   send pm to Stormdog
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
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Registered: 07-2006
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Re: EVILution



DNA is affected by outside sources, such as radiation. This is why the 2nd Law doesn't apply.

emoticon No, the closed system is the universe.

Laws don't trump theories. New theories can trump a previous law, though. Newton made mistakes. His laws regarding gravity were refined, based on later theories. This happens all the time in science. Unlike theology, new conclusions are welcome in science. It's called "progress".

But it's still gravity, you drop something, it falls. Maybe refined, but not changed altogether.

But you do hit on an important point - don't accept the words of a scientist simply because he's wearing a labcoat.

Ah, the same goes for Christians. Just because one might claim to be a Christian, or wear a cross, doesn't mean they are one, or that you should accept what they say.
Like the Bereans, we should search Scripture to see if what they say is true.


---

I'm running out of time, to live
Running out of love, to give
Running out of life, within
God help me --RSJ

12/1/2008, 12:48 pm Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
Elim10 Profile
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Re: EVILution


Yeah, Stormdog evolution is not science.The very basis of evolution is against scientific laws.
Evolution is a belief that distorts science.




Order ofMelchizedek wrote:

Evolution is not science. emoticon
It's more like a religion, and many have a strong faith in it.

And no, it is no threat to my "fundamentalism" at all.

Now, you're the one always talking about proof. Where's the evolutionary proof? Germs, you say? Look closer, mutations are generally something being lost, not something new appearing. Besides, they're still germs. When one evolves into a cat, let me check out that proof.

Macro evolution violates the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics, as well as Biogenesis.
Last I heard, a law trumps a theory.

DNA is a code. Has there ever been a code that was not created by some sort of intelligence? I've actually had an atheist answer me and say, "No, just this one time." emoticon




Melchizedek, I must applaud your post.



 emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon

---
Whatever comes,there's a reason for it.God is sovereign.He has it all planned out. - Nikki Hassman Anders
12/1/2008, 1:03 pm Link to this post send pm to Elim10
 
Stormdog Profile
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you applaud inaccuracies?



Elim10 wrote:

Yeah, Stormdog evolution is not science.The very basis of evolution is against scientific laws.
Evolution is a belief that distorts science.




Order ofMelchizedek wrote:

Evolution is not science. emoticon
It's more like a religion, and many have a strong faith in it.

And no, it is no threat to my "fundamentalism" at all.

Now, you're the one always talking about proof. Where's the evolutionary proof? Germs, you say? Look closer, mutations are generally something being lost, not something new appearing. Besides, they're still germs. When one evolves into a cat, let me check out that proof.

Macro evolution violates the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics, as well as Biogenesis.
Last I heard, a law trumps a theory.

DNA is a code. Has there ever been a code that was not created by some sort of intelligence? I've actually had an atheist answer me and say, "No, just this one time." emoticon




Melchizedek, I must applaud your post.



 emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon



alrightythen. You did read my reply?

Can you explain how the ToE violates the 2nd LoT?

---
There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
12/1/2008, 2:42 pm Link to this post send email  to Stormdog   send pm to Stormdog
 
Elim10 Profile
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Re: EVILution


Yes, I read your post.

---
Whatever comes,there's a reason for it.God is sovereign.He has it all planned out. - Nikki Hassman Anders
12/1/2008, 5:01 pm Link to this post send pm to Elim10
 
Stormdog Profile
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then can you elaborate?



Elim10 wrote:

Yes, I read your post.



What part of Mel's post did you think was so great? The part where he messes up the physics or the part where he messes up the genetics?

---
There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
12/1/2008, 6:29 pm Link to this post send email  to Stormdog   send pm to Stormdog
 
Stormdog Profile
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The Atheist

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not that you will, but....



Elim10 wrote:

Yeah, Stormdog evolution is not science.The very basis of evolution is against scientific laws.
Evolution is a belief that distorts science.





Can you explain that to me?

And notice how nobody has shown a capability of putting forth their own scientific theory to replace the ToE. I'll not hold my breath.


---
There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
12/1/2008, 10:13 pm Link to this post send email  to Stormdog   send pm to Stormdog
 
Stormdog Profile
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Re: EVILution



Order ofMelchizedek wrote:


DNA is affected by outside sources, such as radiation. This is why the 2nd Law doesn't apply.

emoticon No, the closed system is the universe.



Did you want to discuss evolution on other planets or just here on earth. The earth is not a closed system, which is why the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is not violated. If sunlight could not penetrate our atmosphere, you'd have a point. But it does, so you don't.



Laws don't trump theories. New theories can trump a previous law, though. Newton made mistakes. His laws regarding gravity were refined, based on later theories. This happens all the time in science. Unlike theology, new conclusions are welcome in science. It's called "progress".

But it's still gravity, you drop something, it falls. Maybe refined, but not changed altogether.



Uh, yeah. Did you think that replacing one law or theory with another would somehow change what we observe when an object is dropped? A theory is a model that we use to explain our observations of the world around us. Altering the model to better fit our observations does not in anyway alter our observations. I have no idea why you wrote what you did.



But you do hit on an important point - don't accept the words of a scientist simply because he's wearing a labcoat.

Ah, the same goes for Christians. Just because one might claim to be a Christian, or wear a cross, doesn't mean they are one, or that you should accept what they say.
Like the Bereans, we should search Scripture to see if what they say is true.



unfortunately, scriptures can be interpreted in ways that lead to multiple conclusions, hence the many denominations and sub-cults.

I'll take people's word for it if they say they're a Christian or not. I'm still free to hold the opinion that they're not very good ones, though.

---
There' s probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
12/1/2008, 10:20 pm Link to this post send email  to Stormdog   send pm to Stormdog
 
Elim10 Profile
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Re: then can you elaborate?



Stormdog wrote:

What part of Mel's post did you think was so great? The part where he messes up the physics or the part where he messes up the genetics?



Hmmm...which part was my favorite....I liked the whole post!




---
Whatever comes,there's a reason for it.God is sovereign.He has it all planned out. - Nikki Hassman Anders
12/2/2008, 10:58 am Link to this post send pm to Elim10
 


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