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Portia01
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?
Joh 14:6
(6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:16-17
(16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;
(17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
This is exactly what the Church teaches so I don't know how you got the impression that she teaches otherwise.
Read "DOMINUS IESUS"
ON THE UNICITY AND SALVIFIC UNIVERSALITY
OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH
From that document:
The doctrine of faith must be firmly believed which proclaims that Jesus of Nazareth, son of Mary, and he alone, is the Son and the Word of the Father. The Word, which “was in the beginning with God” (Jn 1:2) is the same as he who “became flesh” (Jn 1:14). In Jesus, “the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Mt 16:16), “the whole fullness of divinity dwells in bodily form” (Col 2:9). He is the “only begotten Son of the Father, who is in the bosom of the Father” (Jn 1:18), his “beloved Son, in whom we have redemption... In him the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him, God was pleased to reconcile all things to himself, on earth and in the heavens, making peace by the blood of his Cross” (Col 1:13-14; 19-20).
Faithful to Sacred Scripture and refuting erroneous and reductive interpretations, the First Council of Nicaea solemnly defined its faith in: “Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only begotten generated from the Father, that is, from the being of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father, through whom all things were made, those in heaven and those on earth. For us men and for our salvation, he came down and became incarnate, was made man, suffered, and rose again on the third day. He ascended to the heavens and shall come again to judge the living and the dead”.28
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9/21/2006, 12:26 pm
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Portia01
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?
Jesus is our only advocate.
Mel, how do you define advocate? Just to explain our postion...We see an advocate as someone who would plead for us or intercede for us, such as Mary did at the wedding of Cana. Every time I ask someone to pray for me, to ask God to grant me something, if that be His Holy will, I ask that person to be an advocate/intercessor for me. Mary and the saints are no exception since we believe in the Communion of Saints..that those in Heaven are alive with God and can pray for us the same as Christians on earth pray for each other.
None of this takes away from the fact that Jesus is the one Mediator between God and man.
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9/21/2006, 12:36 pm
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Hasah
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?
you're not by neither does the Church.the issue is that the Bible ws not meant to be self interpreted and doctrines dreamed up by men claiming authority for themselves.Scripture tells us a number of things;
we are NOT to lean on our own understanding.
Ok, but doctrines dreamed up not in the Bible are ok? Like the brown scapular saving me from the fires of hell? Isn't that another way to God besides Jesus and it sounds like something dreamed up by men.
Hail, Holy Queen (Salve, Regina)
Mary Queen is not in the Bible Turn then, most gracious Advocate
The Holy Spirit is my most gracious advocate, or Jesus... the triune nature of God as in Father Son and Holy Spirit, no Mary.
This is what my Bible says, even my Catholic Bible.
Last edited by Hasah, 9/21/2006, 1:13 pm
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9/21/2006, 1:10 pm
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Order ofMelchizedek
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?
Every time I ask someone to pray for me, to ask God to grant me something, if that be His Holy will, I ask that person to be an advocate/intercessor for me.
Ok, I can agree with that. Mary and the saints are no exception since we believe in the Communion of Saints.
I guess this is the part I disagree with. When Jesus spoke of Lazarus and the rich man, He said that no one could cross over to warn the rich man's brothers. To me, this suggests that no saints or Mary, none but Jesus Himself can intercede for us in the spiritual realm. Other people in this world can, but only doing so through Jesus.
Aren't we forbidden from seeking "familiar spirits"?
What would the difference be?
---
"All of Your goodness, the blood You have shed, the cross I now remember, lest I forget" -RSJ
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9/21/2006, 1:14 pm
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Hasah
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?
The Brown Scapular "Whosoever dies clothed in this shall never suffer eternal fire"
The Mother of God made this astounding promise to a humble Carmelite Monk, Saint Simon Stock, in England more than 700 years ago
If a piece of cloth can save me from eternal fire, why did Jesus have to die?
Isa 8:19
(19) And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
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9/21/2006, 1:30 pm
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Hasah
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?
And that same site, Green Scapular In 1830, when Saint Catherine Labouré was greatly blessed by the Most Holy Presence of Our Lady Queen of Heaven and the Gift of the Miraculous Medal was given, Our Lady promised that all who made pilgrimage there in Faith would receive great graces through Her intercession with Her Divine Son.
Queen of Heaven IS in the Bible;
(Jer 7:18) The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
(Jer 44:17) But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
(Jer 44:18) But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
(Jer 44:19) And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
(Jer 44:25) Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.
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9/21/2006, 1:46 pm
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praying4patience
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Try the DAVIDIC QUEENS
you're looking at one passage.Try the Davidic queens and others in the OT.
"So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right. Then she said, ‘I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.’ And the king said to her, ‘Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you’" (1 Kgs. 2:19–20).
Begin there.
GB!~
p4p
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9/21/2006, 1:56 pm
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praying4patience
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Sts Peter and Paul
Aren't we forbidden from seeking "familiar spirits"?
are Sts Peter and Paul 'familiar spirits'
Are the holy ones in heaven(book of Revelation)familiar spirits?I don't think so.
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9/21/2006, 1:59 pm
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Hasah
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?
God is Holy, the Holy Spirit is Holy, and Jesus is Holy
And regardless where the reference to queen of heaven, burning incense to her and provoking God to anger.
Then get to Revelation;
Rev 2:18-25
(18) And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
(19) I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
(20) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
(21) And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
(22) Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
(23) And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
(24) But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
(25) But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Ten Commandments and the difference between the Protestant 10 and the Catholic 10, idolatry isn't there.
Don't these things stick out?
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9/21/2006, 2:07 pm
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praying4patience
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?
And regardless where the reference to queen of heaven, burning incense to her and provoking God to anger.
you're talking about a pagan godess and by the looks of things you did not read anything about the Davidic queens. I get that impression from most of your posts.You don't read the replies.You just skip onto the next without responding to the information that is given in them.
That said,your quote is of a pagan goddess not the Davidic queens. Mary is not a goddess.She's human.
GB!~
p4p
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9/21/2006, 2:53 pm
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