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For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23) In reply Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. (John 3:3) Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6) That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. (Romans 10:9-11)
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

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Portia01 Profile
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Registered: 03-2006
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?



Now, what's a brown scapular, anyway?



Click here.


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9/22/2006, 12:19 pm Link to this post send email  to Portia01   send pm to Portia01
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?


Cool, thanks! I'll check that out.



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"All of Your goodness, the blood You have shed, the cross I now remember, lest I forget" -RSJ

9/22/2006, 12:58 pm Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
Hasah Profile
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?


Hasah is not confused anymore.

What I used to believe when I was Catholic, I believed I had salvation because I was baptized (sprinkled), I believed if I had unconfessed sin when I died I would probably do time in purgatory first. I believed I had to keep up with the mass every Sunday and Holy Day and the sacraments. I'm doing this from the best of memory because I haven't thought in these terms in a long time. I would read books on the saints, read other imprimatur approved books because the way I was brought up anything having to do with religion wasn't valid unless it had that seal. Basically I believed what I was told to believe.

I couldn't go to communion if I had unconfessed sin. I believed only the priest could absolve me of my sin through confession which included penance.

If I got married, it had to be to someone Catholic, if they weren't Catholic they'd have to convert if we were to be married in a Catholic church. A non-church wedding wouldn't be considered valid in the church's eyes

Now what I believe is the way to the Father is Jesus, I follow Him. I don't need to follow anything else. I start and end with the Bible, renew my mind with His word. I don't pray to saints or mary, just God.

Last edited by Hasah, 9/22/2006, 3:23 pm
9/22/2006, 2:59 pm Link to this post  
 
praying4patience Profile
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?



Hasah is not confused anymore.

What I used to believe when I was Catholic, I believed I had salvation because I was baptized (sprinkled), I believed if I had unconfessed sin when I died I would probably do time in purgatory first. I believed I had to keep up with the mass every Sunday and Holy Day and the sacraments. I'm doing this from the best of memory because I haven't thought in these terms in a long time. I would read books on the saints, read other imprimatur approved books because the way I was brought up anything having to do with religion wasn't valid unless it had that seal. Basically I believed what I was told to believe.

I couldn't go to communion if I had unconfessed sin. I believed only the priest could absolve me of my sin through confession which included penance.

If I got married, it had to be to someone Catholic, if they weren't Catholic they'd have to convert if we were to be married in a Catholic church. A non-church wedding wouldn't be considered valid in the church's eyes

Hasah has some things wrong here and some things right.But from everything that Hasah says i picture this person going through the motions. Unless a person changes in heart and unless a person is DISPOSED to the graces God offers through His gifts they are probably going to continue to go through the motions.
And eventually quit doing that-once that happens it's out the door.I guarantee it.
Then they fall prey to Jack Chick,Lorraine Boettner,Hissop ...and others.
They're empty enough to be filled with hate and then they end up at boards like this with anger and very little understanding of the faith they used to profess.

Now what I believe is the way to the Father is Jesus, I follow Him.

How does one follow Jesus and reject His Church?
GB!~
p4p

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9/22/2006, 5:01 pm Link to this post send email  to praying4patience   send pm to praying4patience Blog
 
AndyS333 Profile
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Re: Should we pray to Mary?


Hi Hasah,

Let me go through your reply one by one and reply with the Catholic teaching.

I believed I had salvation because I was baptized,

True, unless you reject God after that by serious sin, such as murder.

I believed if I had unconfessed sin when I died I would probably do time in purgatory first.

True, but what exactly do you understand that "purgatory" is? BTW - there is no concept of "time" after death.

I believed I had to keep up with the mass every Sunday and Holy Day and the sacraments.

True, but did you ever learn why?

I would read books on the saints, read other imprimatur approved books because the way I was brought up anything having to do with religion wasn't valid unless it had that seal.

That's usually the safe bet.. But there are many "valid" religious writings that do not bear the impramatur seal. Even the pope has quoted from non-Catholic Christians in his writings as a private theologian.

Basically I believed what I was told to believe.

That's fine as a child, but as you know, adults must at some point seek to understand their faith at a deeper level for it to take root.

I couldn't go to communion if I had unconfessed sin.

Only true if you have committed serious sin like adultery or murder. Did you learn why?

I believed only the priest could absolve me of my sin through confession which included penance.

True, but only if you truly repent and did you learn why a sacramental confession rather than a simple prayer of repentance? BTW - if on your deathbed you repent out of love for God, but cannot participate in the Sacrament of Reconciliation before your death, the Church teaches that your sins are forgiven if you intended to confess them sacramentally.

If I got married, it had to be to someone Catholic, if they weren't Catholic they'd have to convert if we were to be married in a Catholic church.

Not true. The non-Catholic spouse must agree to allow the children to be raised Catholic until they come of age. They are not required to convert. In fact, its not a true conversion if they are only going through the motions to make the Church or their spouse happy.

A non-church wedding wouldn't be considered valid in the church's eyes

Not necessarily true. The Church recognizes Christian marriage between non-Catholic Christians in some cases. BTW - the Church also recognizes valid Baptism in non-Catholic Christian churches if done the same way and with the same intent as the Catholic Church (e.g., Lutheran, Methodist, et al).

However, it is true that a Catholic is required to be married in the Church. Makes sense, though. If you're Catholic and you understand the grace offered in the Sacrament of Marriage, why would you reject that grace?

Now what I believe is the way to the Father is Jesus, I follow Him. I don't need to follow anything else. I start and end with the Bible, renew my mind with His word.

That's great. The Catholic Church teaches this too. Sorry you didn't get that in CCD or the homilies you heard in Mass.

Just wondering how you think Christ reveals Himself to us and makes known to us how to follow Him. Is it only through you reading the Bible, or is it also through His Body, the church?

I don't pray to saints or mary, just God.

That's okay, but there's also nothing wrong with asking those living in Christ who have passed on, to pray for us.

One more question Hasah, what did you learn in CCD, the Scripture readings in Mass, and the homilies you heard about the need for faith to be saved?

BTW - if school is getting busy, feel free to email me your questions/comments at [email protected]. We may be able to have a more relaxed conversation that way. You may not feel like you have to reply right away like we might in a public forum.

Just laying out the invitation. I know I sometimes feel like I have to defend my faith and if its public, I feel that I have to reply promptly. This is open to anyone else too.

Last edited by AndyS333, 9/25/2006, 6:35 am


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9/23/2006, 6:26 am Link to this post send email  to AndyS333   send pm to AndyS333
 


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