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For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23) In reply Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. (John 3:3) Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6) That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. (Romans 10:9-11)
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

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Servant

Registered: 03-2006
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Ok i have some questions re siblings


Let's just suppose that Mary did have more offspring.Let's just suppose that Jesus did have brothers.

Of course,you know what i beleive but for the sake of these questions let's just suppose.


Jesus IS God.
God had actual brothers.Biologically, physically,shared DNA and all that they obtained from Mary by heredity. Ok.Joseph would be their father and not Jesus father but that still doesn't change the fact that biologically and through DNA they are actual brothers of Jesus.And we know Jesus IS God.
Which leads to my next question.Jesus is God.Mary gave birth to the Messiah.
Why would either she or Jospeh even desire to have relations to have more children?
For that matter Mary conceived and bore the Messiah.The one that they had been waiting for as prophesized in scripture.Put yourself in Joseph's shoes so to speak.
Your wife has had a virgin birth, her offspring is the Messiah..she has been overshadowed by the power of the Most High God.Would you desire having relations with her or would you be so in awe of what has taken place that you would not wish to be the guardian for Mary and Jesus out of love and awe of God? Afterall,while the conjugal union of man and wife is good in marriage and created by God isn't this event so awesome that having conjugal relations with the woman who bore the Messiah secondary to that?
GB!~
p4p



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9/21/2006, 8:34 am Link to this post send email  to praying4patience   send pm to praying4patience Blog
 
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Registered: 07-2006
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Re: Ok i have some questions re siblings


No, I would not say that God had brothers. I don't know what DNA Jesus might have gotten from Mary - maybe none for all I know, but the divine DNA (or whatever you'd call it) was not shared with these half-brothers. They were just regular men.

Why would either she or Jospeh even desire to have relations to have more children?

Why not? It's a perfectly normal and accepted thing in this life.

Your wife has had a virgin birth, her offspring is the Messiah..she has been overshadowed by the power of the Most High God.Would you desire having relations with her or would you be so in awe of what has taken place

Yes, I suppose I would be in awe. However, life goes on. Eventually, yes, I would want to have relations with my wife and have other children. I don't see anything wrong with that. And that's what I believe happened.



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"All of Your goodness, the blood You have shed, the cross I now remember, lest I forget" -RSJ

9/21/2006, 11:49 am Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
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Servant

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Re: Ok i have some questions re siblings



No, I would not say that God had brothers.

You say Jesus had brothers.Jesus IS God.
It's unavoidable.


I don't know what DNA Jesus might have gotten from Mary - maybe none for all I know,

BUT if you truly believe in the Incarnation-and i know that you do-Jesus received ALL his DNA from Mary.It couldn't be none.Jesis is God Incarnate.Truly human and truly divine.To be truly human means that He had all of Mary's DNA.The only DNA.

Why not? It's a perfectly normal and accepted thing in this life.

Sure is.We agree. Created by God. But a virgin birth brought about the hypostatic union and the conception of the Redeemer(God becoming man)and a woman overshadowed by the power of the Most High God and full of grace-extraordinary!!!!


Yes, I suppose I would be in awe. However, life goes on.

Mary conceives and gives birth to the Messiah and all we can say is "life goes on?"
i know you well enough Mel to know you don't really think that.i get the feeling you're trying to avoid something here.
GB!~
p4p

Last edited by praying4patience, 9/21/2006, 12:11 pm


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Re: Ok i have some questions re siblings



You say Jesus had brothers.Jesus IS God.
It's unavoidable.

emoticon No way! With God, all things are possible. Maybe Jesus had none of Mary's DNA. emoticon


Mary conceives and gives birth to the Messiah and all we can say is "life goes on?"
i know you well enough Mel to know you don't really think that.i get the feeling you're trying to avoid something here.

Not that I'm aware of. She gives birth to the Messiah. Now that's over, it's done. Awesome, but she's finished. Now why can't she continue her life with her husband, doing all the normal things a husband and wife do together? There is nothing that says she's not allowed to. And nothing that says she didn't.

 

---

"All of Your goodness, the blood You have shed, the cross I now remember, lest I forget" -RSJ

9/21/2006, 12:18 pm Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
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Servant

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Re: Ok i have some questions re siblings



Maybe Jesus had none of Mary's DNA.

Jesus is truly human and truly divine.
That's the Incarnation.He had her DNA.
He was really conceived and really born and He was really human.
GB!~
p4p


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9/21/2006, 12:23 pm Link to this post send email  to praying4patience   send pm to praying4patience Blog
 
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Re: Ok i have some questions re siblings


Oh, I agree that Jesus was truly and completely human and truly and completely God. Whether He had Mary's DNA or not isn't really the issue here. He probably did, I'm just saying that with God, things are possible that we could never imagine.

Anyway, the difference between Jesus and His brothers is the divine part. That changes everything. Even though these were His half-brothers, there was nothing divine about them.


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"All of Your goodness, the blood You have shed, the cross I now remember, lest I forget" -RSJ

9/21/2006, 12:28 pm Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
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Re: Ok i have some questions re siblings



Jesus is truly human and truly divine.
That's the Incarnation.He had her DNA.



It always puts up a little red flag when someone eplains/justifies or even argues scripture by using science. Science is very limited, mostly by our ignorance. I don't think one can indisbutably claim that Jesus had Mary's DNA. Jesus was fully man (and fully God), but I don't think that requires him to have Mary's DNA. I don't really see how it requires him to have any DNA. Didn't God make Adam out of the dust(dirt)? Where did Adam's DNA come from?




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Peace, that brief period in history when everyone stops to reload.
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Re: Ok i have some questions re siblings


When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked. "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren't all his sisters with us?...

-Matthew 13:53-56
9/21/2006, 1:33 pm Link to this post send email  to Java Angel   send pm to Java Angel
 
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Re: Ok i have some questions re siblings


 emoticon Yep, brothers. Even sisters.

Ok, this is from the link in the other thread, but it fits in this thread better, so I'm posting it in here.

The apostle James who St. Paul refers to as the Lord's brother is the son of Alphaeus, not the son of Mary or Joseph.
The key to understanding all this is the fact that the word used for "brother" in these passages can have a wider range of meaning than simply an immediate family member.

I guess it could, but I see no reason to suspect that it would mean anything other than exactly what it says. And the Scripture that Java posted would really have to mean actual brothers in the context that it's given.
The only reason for looking for a different meaning of the word is to promote another doctrine - that Mary remained a virgin, and I don't believe that she did. There was no reason for her to do so, and nothing to suggest that she did.
 emoticon



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"All of Your goodness, the blood You have shed, the cross I now remember, lest I forget" -RSJ

9/21/2006, 1:53 pm Link to this post send pm to Order ofMelchizedek
 
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Servant

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Re: Ok i have some questions re siblings



Oh, I agree that Jesus was truly and completely human and truly and completely God. Whether He had Mary's DNA or not isn't really the issue here. He probably did, I'm just saying that with God, things are possible that we could never imagine.

He did because we do not deny the Incarnation of Jesus. Saying that with God all things are possible is true.That is another reason we accept the Incarnation of Jesus.But that's just the point.If we truly beleive this then Jesus was truly concieved and truly born and that means exactly what it implies.







Anyway, the difference between Jesus and His brothers is the divine part. That changes everything. Even though these were His half-brothers, there was nothing divine about them.

now they're half brothers. I thought you said brothers.


The only reason for looking for a different meaning of the word is to promote another doctrine

there is another reason.It's the other way around.They saw ALL the meanings and the doctrine developed.

You can see things and promote doctrine.Or you can revolt against the Church and interpret it to find your own doctrines(that is the Protestant Reformation aka Revolt).What do ppl think? The Catholic Church dreamed up the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary and the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary because they knew some 1600 yr later they would get ppl all upset and reject them? I don't think so.
Doctrine/Dogma didn't just drop out of the sky.
GB!~
p4p



Last edited by praying4patience, 9/21/2006, 5:38 pm


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